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Epic Salary Info

Posted on November 20, 2014 I Written By

John Lynn is the Founder of the HealthcareScene.com blog network which currently consists of 15 blogs containing almost 6000 articles with John having written over 3000 of the articles himself. These EMR and Healthcare IT related articles have been viewed over 13 million times. John also manages Healthcare IT Central and Healthcare IT Today, the leading career Health IT job board and blog. John is co-founder of InfluentialNetworks.com and Physia.com. John is highly involved in social media, and in addition to his blogs can also be found on Twitter: @techguy and @ehrandhit.

Many of you probably remember that we helped promote an Epic Salary Survey. As promised, they’ve published the results of the survey and we thought that many readers would be interested in the Epic Salary survey results.

The survey had 753 responses. Not bad for an online survey that was promoted across various blogs and social media outlets. Although, as you can imagine, some states are better represented than others. It’s the challenge of having 50 states.

This is my favorite chart from the Epic salary survey results (you can download the full survey results and data by states here):
Average Epic Salary by Job Position

As I look at some of these salaries, I’m reminded of the doctor who said that they shouldn’t be spending time learning their EHR. The hospital CFO then told the doctor, “I’m sorry, but that Epic consultant costs a lot more than you.”

Now I’d like to see one from Meditech and Cerner.

John Glaser to Stay on as Senior VP of Cerner Upon Close of Acquisition

Posted on November 19, 2014 I Written By

John Lynn is the Founder of the HealthcareScene.com blog network which currently consists of 15 blogs containing almost 6000 articles with John having written over 3000 of the articles himself. These EMR and Healthcare IT related articles have been viewed over 13 million times. John also manages Healthcare IT Central and Healthcare IT Today, the leading career Health IT job board and blog. John is co-founder of InfluentialNetworks.com and Physia.com. John is highly involved in social media, and in addition to his blogs can also be found on Twitter: @techguy and @ehrandhit.

In case you’re living under a rock (or more affectionately, you’re too busy working to follow the inside baseball of EHR company acquisition), Cerner is set to acquire Siemens in late winter or early spring pending all the needed approvals for companies this size. Watching the merging of these two companies is going to be very interesting indeed.

Neil Versel just reported that John Glaser, current CEO of Siemens Health Services, has announced that upon close of acquisition he’ll be joining the Cerner team as a Senior VP. I also love that John Glaser made this announcement on the Cerner blog.

I think this is a big deal since I believe John Glaser is at the point in his career that he could do just about anything (or nothing) if that’s what he desired. The few times I’ve interacted with John Glaser, he was sincerely interested in moving healthcare forward through the use of advanced IT. I imagine that’s what’s motivating him to stay with Cerner. No doubt, Cerner is sitting on a huge opportunity.

In John Glaser’s blog post, he provided an interesting insight into Neal Patterson’s comments at the Cerner user conference:

In his CHC keynote address, Cerner CEO Neal Patterson did a masterful job of conveying Cerner’s commitment to patient-centered care. Before he spoke, a patient and her nurse were introduced with explanation that the woman’s life was saved by a Cerner sepsis alerting system. Neal then shared the incredible challenges he and his wife have faced in her battle with cancer because of limited interoperability.

Neal’s keynote was very personal – about how we can make a loved one’s care journey easier by ensuring that all records – every detail – are available electronically and accurately wherever the patient receives care. It was the case for interoperability but also the case for making a patient’s life easier and the care better.

It’s hard for me to say how much of this was theatrics, but I’m glad they are at least talking the right talk. I really do hope that Neal’s personal experience will drive interoperability forward. Neil Versel suggested that interoperability would be John Glaser’s focus at Cerner. I hope he’s successful.

While at CHIME, I talked with Judy Faulkner, CEO of Epic, and we talked briefly about interoperability. At one point in our conversation I asked Judy, “Do you know the opportunity that you have available to you?” She looked at me with a bit of a blank stare (admittedly we were both getting our lunch). I then said, “You are big enough and have enough clout that you (Epic) could set the standard for interoperability and the masses would follow.” I’m not sure she’s processed this opportunity, but it’s a huge one that they have yet to capitalize on for the benefit of healthcare as we know it.

The same opportunity is available for Cerner as well. I really hope that both companies embrace open data, open APIs, and interoperability in a big way. Both have stated their interest in these areas, but I’d like to see a little less talk…a lot more action. They’re both well positioned to be able to make interoperability a reality. They just need to understand what that really means and go to work on it.

I’m hopeful that both companies are making progress on this. Having John Glaser focused on it should help that as well. The key will be that both companies have to realize that interoperability is what’s best for healthcare in general and in the end that will be what’s best for their customers as well.

Patient Safety Benefits of EHR, EHR Design, and RIP CCHIT

Posted on November 7, 2014 I Written By

John Lynn is the Founder of the HealthcareScene.com blog network which currently consists of 15 blogs containing almost 6000 articles with John having written over 3000 of the articles himself. These EMR and Healthcare IT related articles have been viewed over 13 million times. John also manages Healthcare IT Central and Healthcare IT Today, the leading career Health IT job board and blog. John is co-founder of InfluentialNetworks.com and Physia.com. John is highly involved in social media, and in addition to his blogs can also be found on Twitter: @techguy and @ehrandhit.

Here’s a quick look at some interesting tweets out their in the healthcare IT and EHR Twitterverse.


I’ve heard this argument from Epic before. There’s certainly an argument to make for improved patient safety on one system. However, that’s likely because our current systems aren’t interoperable. If they were interoperable, then having one massive system wouldn’t be better for patient safety. Considering, the EHR world is going to be a heterogeneous EHR environment, we need to make it so multiple systems isn’t a patient safety issue.


Ouch! I’ve described them as big billing engines, but I think a tool designed for insurance auditors might be more descriptive. Lately there has been a new layer added. EHR is now a tool for meaningful use auditors as well.


CCHIT being gone won’t likely have much impact on healthcare and EHR. They were basically gone for a number of years already. Although, I think their departure is a good thing for healthcare IT and EHR. I’d just still love to see EHR certification disappear as well. EHR certification is not meaningful.

Just Epic Salary Info Survey

Posted on October 24, 2014 I Written By

John Lynn is the Founder of the HealthcareScene.com blog network which currently consists of 15 blogs containing almost 6000 articles with John having written over 3000 of the articles himself. These EMR and Healthcare IT related articles have been viewed over 13 million times. John also manages Healthcare IT Central and Healthcare IT Today, the leading career Health IT job board and blog. John is co-founder of InfluentialNetworks.com and Physia.com. John is highly involved in social media, and in addition to his blogs can also be found on Twitter: @techguy and @ehrandhit.

One of our most popular posts was one about Epic Salaries. Although, that was focused on what Epic payed its employees. Many people are interested in what Epic experts are getting paid as full time employees at hospitals or as Epic EHR consultants.

In an effort to better understand what Epic experts can expect to get paid, someone has put together a survey they call JESI (Just Epic Salary Information). I love transparency and so I want to support their efforts to gather as many Epic Salaries as possible. So, if you are an Epic expert, help us out and fill out the quick Epic Salary Information form. Don’t worry. They don’t ask for your contact information, organization name, or anything else.

The other reason I want to support this effort is that all of the aggregate information will be published for free on JustEpicSalary.info. I’ll be interested to see the results of the survey.

Do you know of any other sources of Epic salary information? How do you decide what you pay your Epic experts?

This also reminds me of a recent discussion I had. This hospital CIO told me that they were talking with their doctor about their Epic implementation. The doctor was complaining about how much time they were spending to get Epic working the right way. The doctor asked why some Epic consultants couldn’t just do this for him. Turns out, the doctor was the cheap resource. Having an Epic consultant do it, would have been much more expensive. Doctors don’t hear that very often.

Investor Wants to Take Down Epic

Posted on October 13, 2014 I Written By

John Lynn is the Founder of the HealthcareScene.com blog network which currently consists of 15 blogs containing almost 6000 articles with John having written over 3000 of the articles himself. These EMR and Healthcare IT related articles have been viewed over 13 million times. John also manages Healthcare IT Central and Healthcare IT Today, the leading career Health IT job board and blog. John is co-founder of InfluentialNetworks.com and Physia.com. John is highly involved in social media, and in addition to his blogs can also be found on Twitter: @techguy and @ehrandhit.

I recently came across a really interesting comment from Chamath Palihapitiya, a venture capitalist (made his money working at Facebook), who commented on the healthcare industry and how he wanted to invest in a startup company that would take down Facebook. I embedded the full video below. His comments about EHR and Epic start at about 52:38 or you can click here to see it.

Here’s a great quote for those who can’t watch the video:

“Somebody has to go after the electronic medical record market in a really big way. Let’s go and take down this company call Epic which is this massive, old conglomerate. It’s like the IBM of healthcare.”

After saying this, he talks about how he and other VC investors like John Doerr could call people from Obama (for meaningful use stage 3) to Mayo Clinic to help a startup company try and take down Epic. He even asserts that he’d call Mayo Clinic and suggest that they should rip out Epic and go with this startup company.

Everyone reading this blog know that it won’t be nearly this simple to convince any hospital that’s on Epic to leave it behind. I agree with Chamath that it will happen at some point, but it won’t be nearly as easy as what he describes. Chamath also suggested that it might take $100 million and you might fail, but what a way to fail.

It certainly provides an interesting view into the way these venture capitalists and many startup companies approach a problem. However, I take a more nuance and practical approach of how I think that Epic will be disrupted. I think that it will require a mix of a new technology paired with a dynamic CIO that’s friends with the hospital IT leadership. You need that mix of amazing technology with insider credibility or it won’t be a success. Plus, you’re not going to go straight in and take out Epic. You’re going to start with a hospital department and create something amazing. Then, that will make the rest of the hospital jealous and you’ll expand from there until you can replace Epic. That’s how I see it playing out, but it likely won’t happen until after the MU dollars are spent.

Chamath’s comments were also interesting, because it shows that he doesn’t know the healthcare market very well. First, he said that meaningful use was part of ACA, but meaningful use is part of ARRA (the HITECH Act) and not ACA. This is a common error by many and doesn’t really impact the points he made. Second, he said that Epic is a big conglomerate. Epic is the farthest thing from a conglomerate that you can find. Has Epic ever acquired any company or technology? Cerner, McKesson, GE, etc could be called conglomerates, but Epic is not. Again, a subtle thing, but shows Chamath’s depth of understanding in the industry. It makes sense though. He isn’t an expert in healthcare IT. He’s an expert in seeing market opportunities. No doubt, disrupting Epic and Cerner would make for a massive company.

More Epic Interoperability Discussion

Posted on October 7, 2014 I Written By

John Lynn is the Founder of the HealthcareScene.com blog network which currently consists of 15 blogs containing almost 6000 articles with John having written over 3000 of the articles himself. These EMR and Healthcare IT related articles have been viewed over 13 million times. John also manages Healthcare IT Central and Healthcare IT Today, the leading career Health IT job board and blog. John is co-founder of InfluentialNetworks.com and Physia.com. John is highly involved in social media, and in addition to his blogs can also be found on Twitter: @techguy and @ehrandhit.

Looks like Epic is starting to open up and join the conversation about healthcare interoperability. The latest is an article in the New York Times which includes a few comments from Judy Faulkner, CEO of Epic. Here’s the main comments from Judy:

In 2005, when it became clear to her [Judy] that the government was not prepared to create a set of rules around interoperability, Ms. Faulkner said, her team began writing the code for Care Everywhere. Initially seen as a health information exchange for its own customers, Care Everywhere today connects hospitals all over the country as well as to various public health agencies and registries.

“Let’s say a patient is coming from U.C.L.A. and going to the University of Chicago, an Epic-to-Epic hospital. Boom. That’s easy,” Ms. Faulkner said. “These are hospitals that have agreed to the Rules of the Road, a legal contract, that says the other organization is going to take good care of the data.”

This is a really interesting approach. Blame the government for not applying a standard. Talk about how you’ve had to do it yourself and that’s why you built Care Everywhere. I wish that Judy would come out with the heart of the matter. Epic’s customers never asked for it and so they never did it. I believe that’s the simple reality. Remember that interoperability might be a big negative for many healthcare systems. If they’re interoperable, that could be a hit to revenue. Hopefully ACOs and other value based reimbursement will change this.

The key to coming clean like this though, is to come out with a deep set of initiatives that show that while it wasn’t something you worked on in the past, you’re going all in on interoperability now. We’re a very forgiving people, and if Epic (or any other large EHR vendor for that matter) came out with a plan to be interoperable, many would jump on board and forgive them for past transgressions (wherever the blame may lie).

Unfortunately, we don’t yet see this. I’d love to catch up with Judy Faulkner at CHIME and talk to her about it. The key will be to have a full spectrum interoperability plan and not just Care Everywhere that doesn’t work everywhere. Remember that Epic has charts for about 50% of the US patient population, but that’s still only 50%. Plus, of the 50% of patients they do have, a very very small percentage of them are all stored in the same Epic system. My guess would be that 99+% of patients who have a record in Epic have their medical records in other places as well. This means that Epic will need data from other non-Epic systems.

As I’ve said before, Epic wouldn’t need to wait for the government to do this. They are more than large enough to set the standard for the industry. In fact, doing so puts them in a real position of power. Plus, it’s the right thing to do for the US healthcare system.

Will the interoperability be perefect? No. It will take years and years to get everything right, but that’s ok. Progress will be better than what we have now. I love this quote from the NY Times article linked above:

“We’ve spent half a million dollars on an electronic health record system about three years ago, and I’m faxing all day long. I can’t send anything electronically over it,” said Dr. William L. Rich III, a member of a nine-person ophthalmology practice in Northern Virginia and medical director of health policy for the American Academy of Ophthalmology.

I hope that Epic continues down the path to interoperability and becomes even more aggressive. I think the climate’s right for them to make it happen. They’re in a really unique position to be able to really change the way we think and talk about interoperability. I’m interested to see if they seize the opportunity or just talk about it.

Of course, we’ve focused this article talking about Epic. That’s what happens when you’re the A list celebrity on the red carpet. People want to talk about you. The NY Times article pretty aptly points out that the other EHR vendors aren’t much more or less interoperable than Epic. Feel free to replace Epic with another large EHR vendor’s name and the story will likely read the same.

My hope is that EHR vendors won’t wait for customers to demand interoperability, but will instead make interoperability so easy that their customers will love taking part. Watch for a future series of posts on Healthcare Intoperability and why this is much easier said than done.

EMR Change Cuts Cardiac Telemetry Use Substantially

Posted on September 25, 2014 I Written By

Anne Zieger is veteran healthcare editor and analyst with 25 years of industry experience. Zieger formerly served as editor-in-chief of FierceHealthcare.com and her commentaries have appeared in dozens of international business publications, including Forbes, Business Week and Information Week. She has also contributed content to hundreds of healthcare and health IT organizations, including several Fortune 500 companies. She can be reached at @ziegerhealth or www.ziegerhealthcare.com.

Changing styles of medical practice can be really tough, even if major trade organization sticks its oar in to encourage new behavior from docs.

Such is the situation with cardiac telemetry, which is listed by the American Board of Internal Medicine Foundation as either unnecessary or overused in most cases. But a recent piece of research demonstrated that configuring an EMR to help doctors comply with the guideline can help hospitals lower needless cardiac monitoring substantially.

Often, it takes a very long time to get doctors to embrace new guidelines like these, despite pressure from payers, employers and even peers. (Physicians may turn on a dime and try out a new drug when the right pharmaceutical rep shows up, but that’s another story.) Doctors say they stick to their habits because of patient, institutional or personal preferences, as well as fear of lawsuits.

But according to a recent study appearing in JAMA Internal Medicine, reprogramming its Centricity EMR did the trick for Wilmington, Del.-based Christiana Care Health System.

To curb the use of cardiac telemetry that was unnecessary, Christiana Care removed the standard option for doctors to order cardiac monitoring outside of AHA guidelines, and required them to take an extra step to order this type of test.

Meanwhile, when the cardiac monitoring order did fall within AHA guidelines, Christiana Care added an AHA-recommended time frame for the monitoring. After that time passed, the EMR notified nurses to stop the monitoring or ask physicians if they believed it would be unsafe to stop.

The results were striking. After implementing the changes in the EMR, the health systems average daily not intensive care unit patients with cardiac monitoring fell by 70%. What’s more, Christiana Care’s average daily cost of administering  non-ICU cardiac monitoring held by 70%, from $18,971 to $5,772.

Christiana Care’s health IT presence is already well ahead of many hospitals — it’s reached Stage 6 of the HIMSS EMRAM scale — so it’s not surprising to see it leading the way in shaping physician behavior.

The question now is how the system builds on what it’s learned. Having survived a politically-sensitive transition without creating a revolution in its ranks, I’d argue the time is now to jump in and work on compliance with other clinical guidelines. With pressure mounting to deliver efficient care, it’d be smart to keep the ball rolling.

Are EHR Complex Because Now We Can Make Them Complex?

Posted on September 22, 2014 I Written By

John Lynn is the Founder of the HealthcareScene.com blog network which currently consists of 15 blogs containing almost 6000 articles with John having written over 3000 of the articles himself. These EMR and Healthcare IT related articles have been viewed over 13 million times. John also manages Healthcare IT Central and Healthcare IT Today, the leading career Health IT job board and blog. John is co-founder of InfluentialNetworks.com and Physia.com. John is highly involved in social media, and in addition to his blogs can also be found on Twitter: @techguy and @ehrandhit.

I recently had a chance to do some late night research for this blog at a QuickCare center near my house (4 sutures later and I should be fine).  While I was there I dropped the fact that I was an EHR blogger so I could get them to talk about their experiences with EHR. As expected, they had strong feelings about EHR and we’re happy to share. In fact, the next week they were switching EHR software in a big bang style switchover with 4 hours of training before the switch. God bless them on their conversion.

Although, one of the comments that struck me most was from the nurse who said, “I use to use MEDITECH and it was so simple to use.”  They then went on to talk about the old DOS-like user interface that MEDITECH employed and how easy it was to use.

I’ve been thinking a lot about this response and it made me wonder, Are we making EHR more complex because now we can?  Think about it for a second. In the DOS based world, you couldn’t make an application complex because the interface couldn’t support it.

I’m not suggesting we go back to a DOS based interface. However, maybe there’s some lessons to be learned from that simpler time.

For example, could a number of keyboard commands be integrated into the EHR to make it more effecient. You might remember that the DOS-based environment was all keyboard based which was part of its efficiency. It made for a bit more learning curve, but once you mastered it, it was incredibly fast.

One thing that is missing from EHR today is simplicity. Maybe looking back might help us remember a simpler day.

Epic Wants to Be Known for Interoperability – Are They Interoperable?

Posted on September 19, 2014 I Written By

John Lynn is the Founder of the HealthcareScene.com blog network which currently consists of 15 blogs containing almost 6000 articles with John having written over 3000 of the articles himself. These EMR and Healthcare IT related articles have been viewed over 13 million times. John also manages Healthcare IT Central and Healthcare IT Today, the leading career Health IT job board and blog. John is co-founder of InfluentialNetworks.com and Physia.com. John is highly involved in social media, and in addition to his blogs can also be found on Twitter: @techguy and @ehrandhit.

Epic has been fighting the stigma of being a closed system for a while now. It seems that Epic isn’t happy about this characterization and they’re coming out guns blazing to try and show how Epic is interoperable. They’re so interested in changing this perception that Epic recently hired a lobbyist to change how they’re viewed by the people in DC.

A recent tweet highlighted a slide from the Epic user conference (Epic UGM) that shows how many Epic patient records they’re exchanging per month. Here’s the tweet and graph below:

Farzad Mostashari asks a very good question, “Does that graph help?” I find Farzad’s tweet also interesting because just over a year ago Farzad tweeted another Epic interoperability chart when he was still National Coordinator at ONC. I’ll embed the previous chart below so you can easily compare the two graphs side by side:
Epic Data Sharing Chart

I think Farzad is right to be skeptical about Epic’s claims to interoperability. First, it seems Epic is finally making some progress with Epic to Epic interoperability, but Epic to Non-Epic systems is still far behind. Second, Epic loves to claim how they have charts for some huge percentage of the US population (currently about 314 million people). I bet if we looked at the percentage of total Epic charts that have been exchanged, it would be an extremely small number. I also wonder if the charts above count a full patient chart or something simple like a lab result or prescription.

I don’t want to harp on this too much, because this is a step forward for Epic. Even if they’re not as interoperable as they could be and as we’d like them to be, I’m excited that they’re now at least open to the idea of interoperability.

With that said, I wish that Epic would spend more time and effort on actually being interoperable and not just trying to say that they’re interoperable. This includes committing the resources required to support connections outside of Epic. I’ve heard over and over from health IT vendor after health IT vendor about how hard it is to get Epic to work with them in any form or fashion. There’s a way that Epic could scale their effort to hundreds of other health IT vendors, but they haven’t made the commitment to do so.

Think about the opportunity that Epic has available to them. They have enough scale, reach and clout that they could by force of size establish a standard for interoperability. Many health IT vendors would bend over backwards to meet whatever standard Epic chose. That’s a powerful position to be in if they would just embrace it. I imagine the reason they haven’t done so yet is because the market’s never demanded it. Sometimes companies like Epic need to embrace something even if it doesn’t drive short term sales. I think this is one of those choices Epic should make.

I’m sure that lobbyists can be an effective solution to change perceptions in Washington. However, a far more effective strategy would be to actually fully embrace interoperability at every level. If they did so, you can be sure that every news outlet would be more than excited to write about the change.

Epic Hires DC Lobbying Firm To Fight Closed-System Reputation

Posted on September 15, 2014 I Written By

Anne Zieger is veteran healthcare editor and analyst with 25 years of industry experience. Zieger formerly served as editor-in-chief of FierceHealthcare.com and her commentaries have appeared in dozens of international business publications, including Forbes, Business Week and Information Week. She has also contributed content to hundreds of healthcare and health IT organizations, including several Fortune 500 companies. She can be reached at @ziegerhealth or www.ziegerhealthcare.com.

For quite some time, everybody’s favorite EMR giant has a “no marketing, no government relations” policy. (In fact, Epic staffers really seem to hate journalists, but maybe they just don’t like me — who knows?)

Anyway, a few weeks ago, reports the ever-watchful HISTalk, it came out that Epic has broken its rule, hiring on DC lobbying firm Card & Associates. While you might think Epic would hire a billion-dollar behemoth, Card is a smallish firm with seven modest accounts and only one healthcare client. It must help, however, that Card is run by the brother of the former White House Chief of Staff under Pres. George W. Bush.

So what made Epic change its standard operating procedure and begin lobbying The Hill? In its federal lobbying disclosure, the EMR firm says that it’s begun lobbying to “educate members of Congress on the interoperability of Epic’s healthcare information technology.”

The timing of the outreach effort isn’t a coincidence, Modern Healthcare astutely notes. As you read this, a team made up of Epic, IBM and a handful of other technology giants are fighting other equally ferocious IT firms to win the roughly $11 billion contract to update the Department of Defense’s clinical systems.

While none of its contract competitors have a strong reputation for interoperability, Epic is seen as much worse, with a RAND Corp. study released in July calling Epic’s systems “closed records.” That had to hurt.

Unless Epic plans to hold health IT classes for Congress over the next several years, I doubt they’ll be able to make their point with largely Luddite Senators and Representatives in Washington on a technical basis. That is, Epic’s lobbyists won’t be able to convince legislators that Epic is interoperable on the merits.

But lobbyists may very well be able to break the ice on The Hill, and sell the idea that those mean, bad old health IT competitors haven’t been telling the truth about Epic. The pitch can include the somewhat matronly CEO, Judith Faulkner, who doesn’t look like the most powerful woman in healthcare or a competitor that would gladly bite your head off and spit it down your neck. Then they can roll out Epic’s pitch that its systems actually are interoperable (between other Epic installs at least). If it sticks even a little bit, whatever the $1.7 billion company spent will have been worth it.

Frankly, I find the idea of portraying Epic as an underdog in any way as downright laughable, and I bet you do too. But I simply can’t imagine another pitch that would work.